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2010-01-30T00:25:02  <fr33mind> back
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2010-01-30T03:35:26  <semolina> something alive?
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2010-01-30T08:43:05  <shevy_sleeps> hmm
2010-01-30T08:58:13  *** barra_home has joined #parpg
2010-01-30T08:58:23  <barra_home> hola
2010-01-30T09:04:41  <shevy_sleeps> i can't change my nickname :(
2010-01-30T09:05:03  <barra_home> why is that?
2010-01-30T09:05:08  *** barra_home is now known as barra_test
2010-01-30T09:05:17  *** shevy_sleeps is now known as shevy
2010-01-30T09:05:20  *** barra_test is now known as barra_home
2010-01-30T09:05:26  <barra_home> hmm seems to work :-)
2010-01-30T09:05:31  <shevy> hmm weird
2010-01-30T09:05:34  <shevy> i was banned from #ruby-lang
2010-01-30T09:06:01  <shevy> weird freenode
2010-01-30T09:06:55  <shevy> aha
2010-01-30T09:06:58  <shevy> i have to identify again
2010-01-30T09:07:28  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o shevy
2010-01-30T09:07:31  <shevy> :)
2010-01-30T09:07:45  <shevy> now it's time to eat something! brb
2010-01-30T09:09:50  <barra_home> are you familiar with the meeting bot?
2010-01-30T09:10:03  <barra_home> http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot
2010-01-30T09:10:04  <UH-Guard2> Title: MeetBot - Debian Wiki (at wiki.debian.org)
2010-01-30T09:10:15  <barra_home> #startmeeting
2010-01-30T09:10:15  <UH-Guard2> Meeting started Sat Jan 30 09:10:15 2010 UTC.  The chair is barra_home. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
2010-01-30T09:10:15  <UH-Guard2> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
2010-01-30T09:10:21  <barra_home> #endmeeting
2010-01-30T09:10:21  <UH-Guard2> Meeting ended Sat Jan 30 09:10:21 2010 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
2010-01-30T09:10:21  <UH-Guard2> Minutes:        http://meetings.christoph-egger.org/parpg/2010/parpg.2010-01-30-09.10.html
2010-01-30T09:10:21  <UH-Guard2> Minutes (text): http://meetings.christoph-egger.org/parpg/2010/parpg.2010-01-30-09.10.txt
2010-01-30T09:10:21  <UH-Guard2> Log:            http://meetings.christoph-egger.org/parpg/2010/parpg.2010-01-30-09.10.log.html
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2010-01-30T09:32:14  <Q_x> good mornin
2010-01-30T09:34:12  <Q_x> shevy - what is the buzz about not making the techdemo?
2010-01-30T09:34:15  <shevy> heya
2010-01-30T09:34:26  <shevy> no, not not making it
2010-01-30T09:34:39  <shevy> but rather put it into place where it doesn't overshadow everything else
2010-01-30T09:35:00  <barra_home> heya Q_x
2010-01-30T09:35:16  <barra_home> just my two cents:
2010-01-30T09:35:25  <barra_home> there are basically two options for the techdemo IMHO
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2010-01-30T09:35:47  <barra_home> 1. put it on the backburner in the sense that we shouldn't feel pressured to release something ASAP
2010-01-30T09:36:35  <barra_home> 2. bundle what we have and release it ASAP, hoping that we can find additional developers this way even if it means that it won't be polished in any sense
2010-01-30T09:37:26  <Q_x> ok, got your point, but we have last short straight run to the finish, why we should not bother of making it as good as we can with lets say one month devoted to polishing it?
2010-01-30T09:37:42  <shevy> well one month doesn't sound bad
2010-01-30T09:38:19  <shevy> +one year however sounds like a problem to me :)
2010-01-30T09:39:21  <shevy> i hope that enough people show up for the meeting to discuss all the items
2010-01-30T09:40:02  <barra_home> to be honest: I don't think that we can deliver anything polished in the next 3-4 months Q_x
2010-01-30T09:40:12  <Q_x> we can take it as investing into attracting people, not "polishing techdemo" for glamour only
2010-01-30T09:40:24  <Q_x> barra_home, we are this far away?
2010-01-30T09:40:25  <barra_home> sure, I fully agree
2010-01-30T09:40:59  <barra_home> it's hard to say because the departments know better (their specific field), but I'm afraid: yes
2010-01-30T09:41:06  <Q_x> is there any actual TODO devoted to tchdemo?
2010-01-30T09:41:14  <barra_home> the trac tickets
2010-01-30T09:41:34  <Q_x> so 75% of it is 3D work?
2010-01-30T09:41:47  <barra_home> but there is no actual "this should be part of the techdemo" and even more important "this should NOT be part of the techdemo"
2010-01-30T09:42:09  <barra_home> prolly, it really comes down if the departments have tracified their tasks
2010-01-30T09:42:46  <barra_home> we can assume that there is no need for additional audio tracks
2010-01-30T09:43:19  <barra_home> we could need somebody who does sound effects but we would have to find someone for the task and I'll be away for two months so somebody else will have to handle recruitments / advertizing
2010-01-30T09:43:28  <shevy> yeah audio is probably very low on the priority list altogether
2010-01-30T09:43:35  <barra_home> on the other side: sound effects aren't essential for a first release
2010-01-30T09:44:16  <barra_home> "release" is a misleading term in this regard
2010-01-30T09:44:24  <barra_home> because it sounds like a demo of the actual game
2010-01-30T09:44:36  <barra_home> and that's something we can't pull off at this point IMHO
2010-01-30T09:44:54  <shevy> how about "techdemo showcase"
2010-01-30T09:45:00  <barra_home> it's a techdemo
2010-01-30T09:45:03  <Q_x> barra_home, could we develop set of citeria for the techdemo to have to release it?
2010-01-30T09:45:08  <barra_home> something thrown together to get early feedback
2010-01-30T09:45:29  <shevy> i am in big love with quodob's videos, i think that would be cool to have regularly (if we made progress)
2010-01-30T09:45:29  <barra_home> something screaming: help us, we lack resources to turn this into a full featured game
2010-01-30T09:45:58  <barra_home> sure Q_x, it's more a matter of decision
2010-01-30T09:46:05  <Q_x> working quest, fight, inventory, save, load, map/quest editor
2010-01-30T09:46:13  <barra_home> read: it comes down what kind of features we would like to offer in the first release
2010-01-30T09:46:42  <barra_home> if that was meant for the first techdemo, I think that _far_ beyond what we can pull off
2010-01-30T09:46:56  <barra_home> fighting will need additional animations
2010-01-30T09:47:02  <Q_x> and what do we have so far?
2010-01-30T09:47:09  <Q_x> and what do we NOT have so far?
2010-01-30T09:47:18  <Q_x> fight only?
2010-01-30T09:47:24  <barra_home> walking around, simple inventory, loading/saving (not sure if it works already)
2010-01-30T09:47:42  <Q_x> we have dialogues too!
2010-01-30T09:47:43  <barra_home> not sure about the quest editor
2010-01-30T09:47:56  <barra_home> it really comes down how sophisticated this editor should be and how easy to use
2010-01-30T09:48:02  <Q_x> barra_home, maximinus has his hands on it
2010-01-30T09:48:22  <barra_home> but I don't see us shipping a sophisticated and easy to use quest editor with the first techdemo
2010-01-30T09:48:39  <Q_x> barra_home, sure thing
2010-01-30T09:48:49  <barra_home> save/load should be fixed for the first release, just in case it's broken right now
2010-01-30T09:49:04  <barra_home> but you're onto something
2010-01-30T09:49:38  <barra_home> the most important task for the next two months will be to decide what kind of features we want to add to the techdemo
2010-01-30T09:49:45  <barra_home> and which ones to leave out for a later release
2010-01-30T09:49:53  <barra_home> and after that start the implementation
2010-01-30T09:50:40  <Q_x> you mean explicitly we have to do TODO for the techdemo and making things there?
2010-01-30T09:51:33  <shevy> hmm
2010-01-30T09:52:15  <barra_home> not sure if I got your question Q_x
2010-01-30T09:52:28  <barra_home> it's more a matter of agreeing what should be in the techdemo
2010-01-30T09:52:34  <barra_home> this could be fleshed out at the wiki
2010-01-30T09:52:42  <barra_home> after that the tasks need to be tracified
2010-01-30T09:52:55  <Q_x> but its a short discussion, we can do it today
2010-01-30T09:53:04  <shevy> :)
2010-01-30T09:53:10  <shevy> if people show up!!!
2010-01-30T09:53:18  <barra_home> we can give it a try
2010-01-30T09:53:27  <barra_home> let's see how many people show up
2010-01-30T09:53:43  <Q_x> if noone else would be here - then we are the people that will show up
2010-01-30T09:53:56  <barra_home> ;-)
2010-01-30T09:54:45  <Q_x> lol, "Q_x would perhaps not mind a finished release in one month"
2010-01-30T09:54:47  <barra_home> concerning shipping a first release
2010-01-30T09:54:59  <barra_home> you got two options there
2010-01-30T09:55:14  <barra_home> ship it before I'm back or after it
2010-01-30T09:55:35  <barra_home> I can clearly say that I can't handle release preperations while I focus on my university tasks
2010-01-30T09:56:07  <barra_home> on the other side: all of the relevant tasks are not witch magic
2010-01-30T09:56:29  <barra_home> so somebody else can take care of them
2010-01-30T09:56:33  <Q_x> we should ship some binnaries before today's meeting :/
2010-01-30T09:56:43  <barra_home> didn't get that one :-/
2010-01-30T09:57:00  <barra_home> why is that?
2010-01-30T09:57:20  <Q_x> with the new fife many people ma have it broken or, as I am, be to lazy to build it on their own
2010-01-30T09:57:24  <barra_home> do you have a copy of PARPG running on your system?
2010-01-30T09:57:34  <shevy> Q_x gotta be prepared for any possibilities in the meeting ;)
2010-01-30T09:57:42  <Q_x> no, it went to the toilet with my linux system
2010-01-30T09:57:59  <shevy> what we really really really need are people that are active and participating
2010-01-30T09:58:01  <barra_home> to be honest: if devs are not willing to invest an hour to set up a build enviroment for the game they're working on, they might not be of much use
2010-01-30T09:58:04  <barra_home> no offense meant
2010-01-30T09:58:18  <barra_home> what kind of system are you running now Q_x ?
2010-01-30T09:58:20  <Q_x> GRUB > GRUB2 update ruined it
2010-01-30T09:58:24  <Q_x> XP
2010-01-30T09:58:27  <barra_home> alrighty
2010-01-30T09:58:35  <barra_home> it's not that hard to build on xp
2010-01-30T09:58:39  <shevy> perhaps i should install winxp here as well :)
2010-01-30T09:58:39  <barra_home> there is a FIFE win32 devkit
2010-01-30T09:58:52  <barra_home> if you can download and install software and run a batch file you can build FIFE
2010-01-30T09:58:57  <Q_x> Developing anything under XP is black magic for me :D
2010-01-30T09:59:06  <barra_home> ...
2010-01-30T09:59:11  <barra_home> running a batch file
2010-01-30T09:59:16  <barra_home> click on the file and run it
2010-01-30T09:59:20  <barra_home> that's all it takes
2010-01-30T09:59:24  <Q_x> OK, I'll try
2010-01-30T09:59:43  <barra_home> you know SVN from the Linux world, so that isn't witch magic either
2010-01-30T09:59:59  <barra_home> looks like I'll have to update the download article at the wiki
2010-01-30T10:00:11  <barra_home> I'll reword it to assume that we already use FIFE 0.3.0
2010-01-30T10:00:20  <barra_home> actually you can skip the build process Q_x
2010-01-30T10:00:28  <barra_home> and rather simply install the FIFE 0.3.0 win32 package
2010-01-30T10:00:32  <Q_x> we have all issues with 0.3.0 solved?
2010-01-30T10:00:36  <barra_home> nope
2010-01-30T10:00:57  <barra_home> but you can simply apply the patch that sits in trac to make PARPG compatible with FIFE 0.3.0 and newer
2010-01-30T10:01:08  <barra_home> I'm waiting for a programmer to apply it but it works for me
2010-01-30T10:01:21  <Q_x> ok
2010-01-30T10:01:24  <barra_home> obviously somebody needs to check the patch for problems
2010-01-30T10:01:45  <barra_home> I'm not a programmer so I don't feel comfortable commiting something that I don't fully understand
2010-01-30T10:02:13  <barra_home> let me fix the download article and you can give it a try in 10 minutes Q_x
2010-01-30T10:04:05  <Q_x> ok, I'll test it, just drop me a line :)
2010-01-30T10:04:18  <Q_x> when it would b ready
2010-01-30T10:05:23  <barra_home> sure :-)
2010-01-30T10:06:34  <shevy> you are pretty close to being a programmer though barra_home :D
2010-01-30T10:07:25  <Q_x> shevy, and who is not? this years are really strange!
2010-01-30T10:07:50  <shevy> those who get confused reading python source code for instance :P
2010-01-30T10:12:12  <barra_home> hmm
2010-01-30T10:12:31  <barra_home> not sure if the patch will properly apply due the game/ folder path :-/
2010-01-30T10:12:36  <barra_home> http://parpg-trac.cvsdude.com/parpg/attachment/ticket/246/import_patch.diff
2010-01-30T10:12:38  <UH-Guard2> Title: Attachment – PARPG project tracker (at parpg-trac.cvsdude.com)
2010-01-30T10:18:34  <barra_home> http://wiki.parpg.net/Download @ Q_x
2010-01-30T10:18:35  <UH-Guard2> Title: Download - Post-Apocalyptic RPG wiki (at wiki.parpg.net)
2010-01-30T10:18:46  <barra_home> let me know if you run into problems, following these instructions
2010-01-30T10:19:53  <Q_x> OK, I just removed old Python and I'm starting from scratch
2010-01-30T10:20:38  <barra_home> if you're installing python again, please install it to C:\Python26
2010-01-30T10:21:03  <barra_home> there are still some issues with hardcoded python paths in FIFE and they haven't fixed this yet (hopefully it's gone in FIFE 0.3.1)
2010-01-30T10:21:51  <Q_x> ok
2010-01-30T10:35:18  *** totycro has joined #parpg
2010-01-30T10:37:29  <Q_x> FIFE co takes forever, I'm getting 60KB/s at it best, usually its around 30
2010-01-30T10:43:46  <barra_home> sorry to hear that :-/
2010-01-30T10:43:59  <barra_home> if it takes too long, simply install FIFE 0.3.0
2010-01-30T10:44:08  <barra_home> in this case you can even skip the build process for FIFE
2010-01-30T10:44:25  <barra_home> but you won't get FIFE's latest SVN fixes this way
2010-01-30T10:45:06  <shevy> always problems :)
2010-01-30T10:47:45  <Q_x> I'm quite patient guy
2010-01-30T10:48:47  <shevy> you are mr. diehard. PARPG scenario in your home, IRC diehard... i wonder what can shake you down!
2010-01-30T10:49:08  <Q_x> seems like PARPG has to be co-ed into "game" folder
2010-01-30T10:49:25  <Q_x> shevy, stroke :D
2010-01-30T10:49:46  <shevy> hehe ewww :(
2010-01-30T10:49:55  <Q_x> I'm quite obese
2010-01-30T10:49:56  <shevy> or
2010-01-30T10:49:58  <shevy> extreme coldness!
2010-01-30T10:50:53  <Q_x> I havn't even got cold in this -20 - -30 C frosts
2010-01-30T10:50:59  <Q_x> :P
2010-01-30T10:54:21  <barra_home> quick trick Q_x
2010-01-30T10:54:38  <barra_home> simply create a game folder and copy the PARPG co into it
2010-01-30T10:54:46  <barra_home> I was afraid that the patch would cause this issue
2010-01-30T10:55:03  <barra_home> hopefully one of the programmers can check the patch and commit it at Sunday
2010-01-30T10:56:47  <Q_x> ok, PARPG is running fine
2010-01-30T10:58:40  <Q_x> barra_home, thanks a lot
2010-01-30T10:58:53  <barra_home> coolio :-) good news
2010-01-30T10:59:03  <barra_home> wasn't that complicated hopefully, besides the odd patching process
2010-01-30T10:59:15  <barra_home> it will be easier once the patch has been applied to our SVN trunk
2010-01-30T10:59:30  <Q_x> FIFE devkit was great help, installing all deps by hand was insane
2010-01-30T10:59:47  <Q_x> is applying it hard?
2010-01-30T11:00:33  <Q_x> I have SVN access
2010-01-30T11:00:44  <shevy> :)
2010-01-30T11:01:44  <barra_home> I have SVN access as well ;-)
2010-01-30T11:02:00  <barra_home> some programmer has to actually check it
2010-01-30T11:02:36  <barra_home> there are some hackish things about it; chewie (who created the patch) copied some functions into it that are essentially in FIFE but couldn't be accessed for a reason
2010-01-30T11:02:48  <barra_home> I don't understand the details myself, that's why a programmer has to take a look
2010-01-30T11:03:08  <Q_x> ok, I got it now
2010-01-30T11:06:44  *** Lamoot has joined #parpg
2010-01-30T11:06:46  *** Lamoot has left #parpg
2010-01-30T11:07:44  *** Lamoot has joined #parpg
2010-01-30T11:07:55  <Lamoot> how rude of me to drop by and not say hi
2010-01-30T11:08:08  <Lamoot> #parpg still autojoin on my freenode connection :)
2010-01-30T11:08:51  <Q_x> hello there
2010-01-30T11:09:07  <barra_home> heya Lamoot :-)
2010-01-30T11:09:16  <Lamoot> yo :)
2010-01-30T11:09:24  <barra_home> how is it going?
2010-01-30T11:09:25  <Lamoot> lots of snow all around the place
2010-01-30T11:09:34  <barra_home> here as well
2010-01-30T11:09:42  <Lamoot> well, college going fine and all, now I finally have a bit of a quiet period
2010-01-30T11:12:16  <shevy> heya Lamoot
2010-01-30T11:12:19  *** eimiar has joined #parpg
2010-01-30T11:12:35  <shevy> yeah we have snow in vienna as well
2010-01-30T11:12:59  <Lamoot> Laibach here :)
2010-01-30T11:13:15  <Lamoot> but it seems the whole of Europe is in snow
2010-01-30T11:14:00  *** Sindwiller has quit IRC
2010-01-30T11:15:30  <shevy> it's getting closer to PARPG climate
2010-01-30T11:15:37  <Lamoot> yp yp
2010-01-30T11:21:53  <Q_x> what kinds of devices can we have in PARPG to cut the wood into boards? Any steam-powered woodmill?
2010-01-30T11:23:24  <barra_home> that would be one option
2010-01-30T11:23:26  <Lamoot> vintage steam locomotive, derailed, the only piston used as a saw to cut wood.
2010-01-30T11:23:33  <Lamoot> found at a railway museum
2010-01-30T11:23:36  <barra_home> hehe
2010-01-30T11:23:41  <barra_home> Arcanum ftw!
2010-01-30T11:23:43  <Lamoot> wasn't destroyed, since it wasn't important in the war
2010-01-30T11:23:46  <Lamoot> I mean steam...
2010-01-30T11:23:52  <barra_home> let's turn this into post nuclear steampunk
2010-01-30T11:23:57  <Lamoot> who cres about that in an atomic war?
2010-01-30T11:24:01  <Lamoot> cares*
2010-01-30T11:24:16  <Lamoot> (answer: everybody, nuclear submarines use steam) :P
2010-01-30T11:31:50  <shevy> Q_x at the very least we need loads of axes and knives
2010-01-30T11:32:08  <shevy> steam-powered stuff would be fun
2010-01-30T11:32:27  <Lamoot> ye olde vikings made all their longboats using small hand axes
2010-01-30T11:36:08  <Q_x> axes, planes, scrappers, hand-saws, chisels
2010-01-30T11:36:11  *** CIA-76 has joined #parpg
2010-01-30T11:36:21  <Q_x> FBI?
2010-01-30T11:36:27  <Lamoot> kill it!
2010-01-30T11:36:31  * Lamoot shoots
2010-01-30T11:36:38  * Lamoot kills CIA-76
2010-01-30T11:36:38  * CIA-76 dies
2010-01-30T11:36:40  <Lamoot> ha!
2010-01-30T11:36:45  <Lamoot> oh noes, don't die!
2010-01-30T11:36:52  * Lamoot hugs CIA-76
2010-01-30T11:36:52  * CIA-76 hugs Lamoot
2010-01-30T11:37:05  <Lamoot> :,(
2010-01-30T11:37:14  <Lamoot> is this the right crying smiley?
2010-01-30T11:37:36  <Q_x> he sems to be crying on the right side :D
2010-01-30T11:37:45  <Lamoot> ::(
2010-01-30T11:37:49  <Lamoot> four-eyes?
2010-01-30T11:38:01  <Lamoot> or two tears?
2010-01-30T11:38:20  <Q_x> and how the heavy loads are moved? by horses?
2010-01-30T11:38:38  <Q_x> Lamoot, big nose :P
2010-01-30T11:39:26  <Lamoot> they are moved by men
2010-01-30T11:39:30  <Lamoot> perhaps by horses
2010-01-30T11:39:42  <Lamoot> it's possible, the horses didn't build the pyramids
2010-01-30T11:40:10  <Q_x> sure thing, but there is not enough hands in PARPG world
2010-01-30T11:40:52  <Lamoot> mutated 4 hand mutants? :)
2010-01-30T11:41:36  <Q_x> weak and hungry youth and one-handed veterans
2010-01-30T11:43:05  <Lamoot> the youth can eat the other hand as well and then go to work :)
2010-01-30T11:44:56  *** Lamoot is now known as Lamoot_working
2010-01-30T12:09:37  <Q_x> google died today
2010-01-30T12:10:02  <Q_x> things are terribly slow there
2010-01-30T12:12:16  <shevy> hehe
2010-01-30T12:18:00  *** shevy has left #parpg
2010-01-30T12:18:03  *** shevy has joined #parpg
2010-01-30T12:18:32  <shevy> hmmm meeting start in 3 hours, wonder if more people will come
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2010-01-30T12:21:13  <barra_home> hi maximinus_
2010-01-30T12:21:19  <maximinus_> hi barra_home
2010-01-30T12:21:32  <maximinus_> don't we normally ping / pong? :-)
2010-01-30T12:21:44  <maximinus_> this meeting is realy late for me
2010-01-30T12:21:53  <barra_home> if you got some time on your hands later: there is a FIFE 0.3.0 compatibility patch in our trac
2010-01-30T12:22:12  <maximinus_> I'm hoping (cross fingers) to have patch ready for meetin
2010-01-30T12:22:14  <maximinus_> meeting
2010-01-30T12:22:21  <barra_home> the patch is already there
2010-01-30T12:22:25  <barra_home> somebody just have to check it
2010-01-30T12:22:32  <barra_home> and apply if no problems are found
2010-01-30T12:22:36  <maximinus_> ah... misunderstood!
2010-01-30T12:22:51  <barra_home> http://parpg-trac.cvsdude.com/parpg/attachment/ticket/246/import_patch.diff
2010-01-30T12:22:52  <maximinus_> ok, well I still have to fix that compile bug
2010-01-30T12:22:54  <UH-Guard2> Title: Attachment – PARPG project tracker (at parpg-trac.cvsdude.com)
2010-01-30T12:23:05  <shevy> maximinus_ !!!
2010-01-30T12:23:20  <maximinus_> also, we have to decide where to 'stick' parpg now, since there is no /clients folder in the new fife download
2010-01-30T12:23:22  <barra_home> yep, a full compile log should help us to figure out the problem
2010-01-30T12:23:22  <maximinus_> hi shevy
2010-01-30T12:23:35  <barra_home> you can stick it whereever you like
2010-01-30T12:23:41  <barra_home> it will work anywhere with FIFE 0.3.0
2010-01-30T12:23:51  <maximinus_> ok, the patch let's us put it anywhere?
2010-01-30T12:24:01  <barra_home> you could recommend a certain folder structure though
2010-01-30T12:24:04  <maximinus_> let me look at code
2010-01-30T12:24:06  <barra_home> FIFE 0.3.0 introduces this
2010-01-30T12:24:23  <barra_home> this patch just fixes the imports for us so PARPG works with FIFE 0.3.0
2010-01-30T12:24:31  <barra_home> one note
2010-01-30T12:24:48  <barra_home> chewie copied certain functionality into the patch that should prolly not be there as it's already in FIFE
2010-01-30T12:25:21  <barra_home> check game/local_loaders/xmlmap.py & game/local_loaders/__init__.py
2010-01-30T12:25:36  <barra_home> he just added it there as it didn't work without it and he didn't have the time to figure out a cleaner solution
2010-01-30T12:25:41  <maximinus_> ok, well first I need to compile the new FIFE
2010-01-30T12:25:54  <barra_home> sure, shoot us a compile log and we'll try to help you :-)
2010-01-30T12:26:24  <maximinus_> it's actually a pretty big add, which smells a bit funny to me :-P
2010-01-30T12:26:45  <barra_home> that's why I didn't apply it right away
2010-01-30T12:27:29  <barra_home> it's prolly related to how our custom maploader works
2010-01-30T12:27:42  <barra_home> but I know far too little about the details to make an informed guess
2010-01-30T12:27:53  <barra_home> so it's up to the programmers to figure out the detaisl
2010-01-30T12:27:57  <barra_home> * details
2010-01-30T12:28:17  <maximinus_> I thought it would just be a small patch to /parpg/scripts/common/utils.py
2010-01-30T12:28:34  <barra_home> nah, all imports have to be fixed
2010-01-30T12:28:40  <maximinus_> ok, well let's see if FIFE want to play, first...
2010-01-30T12:28:41  <barra_home> as pointed out at the FIFE wiki
2010-01-30T12:29:08  <barra_home> the only odd part are the additions to game/local_loaders/xmlmap.py & game/local_loaders/__init__.py
2010-01-30T12:29:41  <barra_home> there is surely a cleaner solution than to replicating code there
2010-01-30T12:29:54  <maximinus_> ok
2010-01-30T12:30:17  <maximinus_> well I just back from the restaurant
2010-01-30T12:30:28  *** Beliar has joined #parpg
2010-01-30T12:30:53  <Beliar> heya
2010-01-30T12:31:25  <shevy> yo Beliar
2010-01-30T12:31:42  <shevy> how is coding after eating maximinus_ :D
2010-01-30T12:35:10  *** maximinus_ has quit IRC
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2010-01-30T12:48:18  <barra_home> hi Beliar
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2010-01-30T13:38:38  <shevy> 2 hours to go!
2010-01-30T13:38:55  <Domtron_Vox> Hi
2010-01-30T13:39:27  <Beliar> hi
2010-01-30T13:39:49  <maximinus_> blimey, 2 hours
2010-01-30T13:40:10  <maximinus_> it's already a bit late here :P
2010-01-30T13:40:58  <Domtron_Vox> 2 hours to what?
2010-01-30T13:42:04  <Beliar> meeting
2010-01-30T13:42:07  <maximinus_> meeting
2010-01-30T13:42:14  <Domtron_Vox> ah ok
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2010-01-30T13:49:44  <barra_home> ping shevy
2010-01-30T13:50:07  <barra_home> do you mind being the chair of the meeting, guiding the discussion?
2010-01-30T13:50:15  <barra_home> if so, I'll taking the meeting notes
2010-01-30T13:50:22  <shevy> sure
2010-01-30T13:50:38  <shevy> maximinus_ will fall asleep on us :-)
2010-01-30T13:51:03  <maximinus_> at this rate I'll be saying hello followed by goodbye!
2010-01-30T13:54:07  <Q_x> maximinus_, have some huge coffe
2010-01-30T13:54:41  <semolina> *shoves a tablet with fresh coffee into here*
2010-01-30T13:54:55  <semolina> nvm, i had a can ready anyway :D
2010-01-30T13:55:12  <shevy> hehe
2010-01-30T13:55:26  <maximinus_> The last thing I need is coffee, guys but thanks anyway :P
2010-01-30T13:55:45  <shevy> sleepy sleepy maximinus_ :D
2010-01-30T13:55:52  <maximinus_> 95 minutes to go, I can hold on!!
2010-01-30T13:56:11  <shevy> with what should we start?
2010-01-30T13:56:16  <shevy> the most important thing i guess?
2010-01-30T13:56:20  <maximinus_> bought a new guitar effects unit last week, playing with that for an hour or so will help :-)
2010-01-30T13:56:40  <maximinus_> shevy, is there an agenda?
2010-01-30T13:58:07  <shevy> you mean the wiki?
2010-01-30T13:58:35  <shevy> http://wiki.parpg.net/Meeting:2010/01/30
2010-01-30T13:58:36  <UH-Guard2> Title: Meeting:2010/01/30 - Post-Apocalyptic RPG wiki (at wiki.parpg.net)
2010-01-30T13:58:38  <Q_x> shevy, asking who is here is the most important maybe ;)
2010-01-30T13:58:43  <shevy> hehehe
2010-01-30T13:58:53  <shevy> i guess one important one is:
2010-01-30T13:58:57  <shevy>   - how to continue
2010-01-30T13:59:01  <maximinus_> 在中国，会议为时已晚!
2010-01-30T13:59:22  <maximinus_> for those who can't read chinese:
2010-01-30T13:59:28  <maximinus_> zài zhōng guó， huì yì wéi shí yǐ wǎn
2010-01-30T13:59:31  <maximinus_> !
2010-01-30T13:59:55  <maximinus_> seriously shevy,
2010-01-30T14:00:14  <maximinus_> main point must be
2010-01-30T14:00:20  <maximinus_> How many people show up?
2010-01-30T14:01:04  <maximinus_> Barra having a rest
2010-01-30T14:01:15  <maximinus_> need to just damn finish the tech demo
2010-01-30T14:01:28  <Taldor> when will the meeting start?
2010-01-30T14:01:36  <barra_home> 90 minutes
2010-01-30T14:01:38  <shevy> a bit more than an hour
2010-01-30T14:01:43  <maximinus_> patch of parpg for fife, when do we commit?
2010-01-30T14:01:48  <maximinus_> hi Taldor
2010-01-30T14:01:52  <Taldor> hi maximinus_
2010-01-30T14:02:04  <maximinus_> good constructive chat last night
2010-01-30T14:02:25  <Taldor> ok, I won't be able to stay so long
2010-01-30T14:02:32  <Taldor> yes :-)
2010-01-30T14:02:51  <Taldor> I've added two more remarks to my list of improvements
2010-01-30T14:03:25  <maximinus_> ok, I'll go and check
2010-01-30T14:04:22  <maximinus_> ok, that last point, I wasn't a great fan of the code you refer when it went in anyway
2010-01-30T14:04:28  <maximinus_> ...you refer to...
2010-01-30T14:05:37  <Taldor> ok
2010-01-30T14:06:36  <maximinus_> it doesn't really adhere to KISS, it solves a problem in the future that we don't have now
2010-01-30T14:06:53  <Taldor> yeah
2010-01-30T14:08:42  <maximinus_> I think I referred to some C++ loving in my pm to you, that's where I thought it appeared :-)
2010-01-30T14:13:25  *** Sindwiller has quit IRC
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2010-01-30T14:23:50  <Q_x> maximinus_, I replied to GUI skinning
2010-01-30T14:24:03  <maximinus_> ok, I'll take a look
2010-01-30T14:25:21  *** CheeseSucker has joined #parpg
2010-01-30T14:25:39  <barra_home> hola CheeseSucker
2010-01-30T14:25:57  <maximinus_> as have I, Q_x!
2010-01-30T14:26:13  <maximinus_> gah, post 666!!!
2010-01-30T14:29:08  <Q_x> dear god
2010-01-30T14:29:27  <Q_x> we've al satanous now!
2010-01-30T14:30:49  <maximinus_> actually, I read somewhere that 616 was the number of the beast
2010-01-30T14:30:58  <Q_x> maximinus_, ok, thanks, hopefully I can make it upon what you'll prepare :)
2010-01-30T14:31:24  <maximinus_> well, I agree that you need simple XML file to test with
2010-01-30T14:31:49  <maximinus_> also, some of the pygui stuff is NOT skinable, AFAIK
2010-01-30T14:32:11  <maximinus_> but if you can find out what is, and how to do it, that's a good start
2010-01-30T14:32:57  <maximinus_> unfortunately, falling snow on the title screen really is a little difficult
2010-01-30T14:33:20  <maximinus_> ....I MIGHT have a minor solution, but it's not great :-(
2010-01-30T14:33:25  <Q_x> maximinus_, I don't know what goes where, what items i exactly need to prepare, so I'll try to do them one by one and alter XMLs untill gui will look OK
2010-01-30T14:33:34  <maximinus_> ok
2010-01-30T14:34:09  <maximinus_> it's more important at the start that you find out how to do it, and how easy / hard it is
2010-01-30T14:34:24  <Q_x> falling snow would be like New Year's confetti, just for fun
2010-01-30T14:34:37  <maximinus_> if you make things look good, that's a bonus
2010-01-30T14:34:53  <maximinus_> for now, we just need to know the 'how'
2010-01-30T14:35:06  <maximinus_> yay! 55 minutes, I may even stay awake!
2010-01-30T14:35:40  * barra_home grabs coffee
2010-01-30T14:35:47  <Q_x> Ive seen the XML gui files, it looks like "alter me", just dunno how to put graphics in and do the hover/clicked thingy
2010-01-30T14:36:16  <maximinus_> ok
2010-01-30T14:36:26  <maximinus_> like I said, let me look into it tomorrow
2010-01-30T14:36:32  <Q_x> ok, sure
2010-01-30T14:37:11  <maximinus_> I have zenbitz's dialog engine, the code structure update, the fife 0.3.0 update and your gui questions to handle
2010-01-30T14:37:22  <maximinus_> so spare me a day at least :-)
2010-01-30T14:37:36  <maximinus_> but the more you ask, the more I'm likely to do it
2010-01-30T14:37:36  <Q_x> sure, sure, no hurry
2010-01-30T14:37:45  <Q_x> :)
2010-01-30T14:37:49  <maximinus_> I work best with a gun at my head :-)
2010-01-30T14:38:12  <maximinus_> so don't be afraid to annoy me, that's the best policy :-)
2010-01-30T14:38:37  <Q_x> I'll remember that :D
2010-01-30T14:39:27  <maximinus_> ok :D
2010-01-30T14:39:37  <maximinus_> but it's true, really...
2010-01-30T14:40:35  <shevy> hmm
2010-01-30T14:41:51  *** Domtron_Vox has quit IRC
2010-01-30T14:42:22  <shevy> perhaps we should try for more regular meetings
2010-01-30T14:42:44  <maximinus_> ok shevy
2010-01-30T14:42:59  <maximinus_> but within reason
2010-01-30T14:43:02  <Q_x> two times per month?
2010-01-30T14:43:06  <shevy> lemme see when we had the last one
2010-01-30T14:43:17  <maximinus_> I would go for one per moth
2010-01-30T14:43:19  <maximinus_> month
2010-01-30T14:43:36  <maximinus_> or 2, at different time zones
2010-01-30T14:43:42  <shevy> that one was the last one i think http://wiki.parpg.net/Meeting:2009/11/07
2010-01-30T14:43:43  <UH-Guard2> Title: Meeting:2009/11/07 - Post-Apocalyptic RPG wiki (at wiki.parpg.net)
2010-01-30T14:43:51  <shevy> yeah 1 / month sounds fine
2010-01-30T14:44:12  <shevy> the last one seems to be 2 months ago. i am going to make a new small wiki pages with a listing of all meetings so far
2010-01-30T14:44:12  <maximinus_> is it the party atmosphere of IRC meetings that's driving you shevy?
2010-01-30T14:44:40  <shevy> well, IRC rocks. i remember we played a browsergame, and coordinated our efforts on IRC, 12 years ago ... :)
2010-01-30T14:45:11  <barra_home> there are a couple of issues with IRC meetings
2010-01-30T14:45:25  <barra_home> different timezones can give you real headaches
2010-01-30T14:45:35  <shevy> i am silly. we already have such a page http://wiki.parpg.net/Meetings
2010-01-30T14:45:35  <barra_home> with few active devs, it really matter if one dev can't make it
2010-01-30T14:45:36  <UH-Guard2> Title: Meetings - Post-Apocalyptic RPG wiki (at wiki.parpg.net)
2010-01-30T14:46:05  <barra_home> and preparing and holding meetings eats up time
2010-01-30T14:46:28  <barra_home> not saying that they aren't useful, but they got their pros and cons
2010-01-30T14:48:20  <Q_x> we sould maybe two meetings in one day - one for East Europe & Asia, other for West Europe & America?
2010-01-30T14:49:10  <shevy> if we have enough people sure
2010-01-30T14:50:31  <maximinus_> let's see how many we get today, that should be a good sign
2010-01-30T14:50:57  <maximinus_> btw, are the IRC logs down for everybody else as well?
2010-01-30T14:51:22  <shevy> maximinus_ tried http://logs.unknown-horizons.org/%23parpg/?C=M;O=D ?
2010-01-30T14:51:23  <UH-Guard2> Title: Index of /#parpg (at logs.unknown-horizons.org)
2010-01-30T14:51:27  <shevy> works for me
2010-01-30T14:51:39  <Beliar> works here too
2010-01-30T14:52:25  <maximinus_> Firefox can't find the server at logs.unknown-horizons.org
2010-01-30T14:52:34  <Beliar> logs.parpg.net too (which is only a redirect anyway)
2010-01-30T14:52:36  <maximinus_> I get that about 50% of the time
2010-01-30T14:54:23  <shevy> poor maximinus_
2010-01-30T14:54:35  <shevy> he uses www from 15 years ago :>
2010-01-30T14:55:08  <barra_home> logs work fine here
2010-01-30T14:55:41  <barra_home> brb
2010-01-30T14:55:44  *** barra_home has quit IRC
2010-01-30T14:55:48  <maximinus_> I use chinese firewall internet!
2010-01-30T14:55:52  <shevy> hehe
2010-01-30T15:01:54  <Q_x> maximinus_, anyway someone can help?
2010-01-30T15:02:14  <maximinus_> no major things
2010-01-30T15:02:33  <maximinus_> just wanted to re-read some things from a few nights ago
2010-01-30T15:02:56  <maximinus_> I get access 50/50 here for some strange reason
2010-01-30T15:03:15  <maximinus_> normally with the great firewall it's all or nothing
2010-01-30T15:03:22  <maximinus_> ...luckily, usually all :-)
2010-01-30T15:03:27  *** pirum has joined #parpg
2010-01-30T15:04:13  *** barra_home has joined #parpg
2010-01-30T15:05:48  <shevy> lol
2010-01-30T15:06:21  <shevy> so... countdown started!
2010-01-30T15:20:44  *** prock has joined #parpg
2010-01-30T15:21:38  <maximinus_> 8 minutes
2010-01-30T15:21:40  <Q_x> with single barra its not that much people here
2010-01-30T15:21:56  <barra_home> actually 13 minutes according to my clock
2010-01-30T15:22:35  <maximinus_> it's shevy's call now barra_home :-)
2010-01-30T15:22:46  <barra_home> correcto
2010-01-30T15:22:56  *** Zenbitz has joined #parpg
2010-01-30T15:22:59  <barra_home> just hoping that zenbitz will make it in time
2010-01-30T15:23:01  <shevy> awww so few minutes left
2010-01-30T15:23:04  <barra_home> ohh well :-)
2010-01-30T15:23:12  <barra_home> good morning Zenbitz
2010-01-30T15:23:15  <shevy> HERE HE IS!!!
2010-01-30T15:23:26  <Zenbitz> good morning
2010-01-30T15:23:39  <Beliar> heye
2010-01-30T15:23:51  <Q_x> mornin!
2010-01-30T15:23:59  <shevy> now i think that would be a nice hint to start soon
2010-01-30T15:24:16  <maximinus_> hey 5 mins, let me go to toilet first!
2010-01-30T15:24:21  <Zenbitz> i am still making coffee
2010-01-30T15:24:22  <shevy> lol ok
2010-01-30T15:24:34  *** Vaporice has joined #parpg
2010-01-30T15:24:41  <Vaporice> heey
2010-01-30T15:24:59  <Q_x> hi thre!
2010-01-30T15:25:03  <shevy> whoa even Vaporice is here
2010-01-30T15:25:10  <barra_home> heya Vaporice :-)
2010-01-30T15:25:14  <shevy> maximinus_ say something when you are back please
2010-01-30T15:25:15  <Vaporice> of course ;)
2010-01-30T15:25:25  <Vaporice> heey barra long time not seen
2010-01-30T15:25:28  *** Taldor has quit IRC
2010-01-30T15:25:56  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o shevy
2010-01-30T15:26:09  <maximinus_> back
2010-01-30T15:26:23  <pirum> hope you guys don't mind if I lurk around
2010-01-30T15:26:29  <maximinus_> no probs
2010-01-30T15:26:32  <shevy> ok let's get this started
2010-01-30T15:26:41  <shevy> So - I hereby announce the start of our first meeting in 2010, and hopefully there will be many more good meetings in 2010.
2010-01-30T15:26:41  <barra_home> nah, we appreciate that pirum
2010-01-30T15:26:44  <shevy> <START>
2010-01-30T15:26:54  <shevy> My suggestion for the first topic is:
2010-01-30T15:26:57  <shevy>   - Developer activity
2010-01-30T15:27:09  <shevy> who is active and who isn't
2010-01-30T15:27:15  <barra_home> (full list of topics can be found here: http://wiki.parpg.net/Meeting:2010/01/30)
2010-01-30T15:27:16  <UH-Guard2> Title: Meeting:2010/01/30 - Post-Apocalyptic RPG wiki (at wiki.parpg.net)
2010-01-30T15:27:26  *** qubodup has joined #parpg
2010-01-30T15:27:31  <qubodup> hello
2010-01-30T15:27:33  <shevy> I think one that comes to my mind first who isn't active is Kaydeth.
2010-01-30T15:27:33  <Beliar> shevy: How about usiing meetbot?
2010-01-30T15:27:34  <barra_home> hi qubodup
2010-01-30T15:27:36  <Q_x> !time
2010-01-30T15:27:37  <UH-Guard2> Q_x: Error: "time" is not a valid command.
2010-01-30T15:27:37  <Beliar> hi
2010-01-30T15:27:44  <Q_x> gosh
2010-01-30T15:27:46  <maximinus_> kaydeth hasn't showed up
2010-01-30T15:27:47  <Q_x> hi
2010-01-30T15:27:53  <barra_home> not a bad idea per se, but AFAIR shevy hasn't used it before
2010-01-30T15:27:56  <Vaporice> !seen Kaydeth
2010-01-30T15:27:56  <UH-Guard2> Vaporice: Kaydeth was last seen in #parpg 7 weeks, 5 days, 20 hours, 32 minutes, and 44 seconds ago: <Kaydeth> can't*
2010-01-30T15:28:02  <barra_home> so I would say save the meeting bot for the next meeting
2010-01-30T15:28:10  <Beliar> kk
2010-01-30T15:28:22  <maximinus_> I think maybe 4 developers
2010-01-30T15:28:24  <shevy> ok let's say that Kaydeth is gone for now at least
2010-01-30T15:28:38  <qubodup> if someone thinks there needs to be a common notepad: http://piratepad.net/
2010-01-30T15:28:41  <UH-Guard2> Title: PiratePad (at piratepad.net)
2010-01-30T15:28:41  <barra_home> I would say that we shouldn't rely on anyone who isn't here today
2010-01-30T15:28:43  <maximinus_> but no movement in the last month
2010-01-30T15:29:08  <maximinus_> are there any developers here other than me?
2010-01-30T15:29:12  <barra_home> I'll be gone for two months as well, starting at February the 2nd to focus on my studies
2010-01-30T15:29:12  <shevy> so let's see... which programmers are probably active? maximinus_ ... Zenbitz ... hmm
2010-01-30T15:29:13  <Vaporice> me
2010-01-30T15:29:18  <shevy> ok, + Vaporice
2010-01-30T15:29:20  <barra_home> amo-ej1 is still around maximinus_
2010-01-30T15:29:26  <Beliar> what do you mean by developers?
2010-01-30T15:29:29  <barra_home> and vaporice and saritor might become active again
2010-01-30T15:29:33  <barra_home> ohh and beliar :-)
2010-01-30T15:29:40  <maximinus_> python programmers
2010-01-30T15:29:47  <shevy> Beliar good question. ... yes, maximinus_ said it :)
2010-01-30T15:29:52  <Vaporice> I'll be busy next week, after that i'll be able to contribute
2010-01-30T15:29:58  <maximinus_> I don't know all the name after 6 months away :P
2010-01-30T15:30:07  <Beliar> yeah, me too. Haven't done much lately though
2010-01-30T15:30:21  <Zenbitz> I am sort of back up emergency programmer
2010-01-30T15:30:27  <barra_home> I'll compile a list of active devs from the IRC notes in the meanwhile
2010-01-30T15:30:29  <shevy> poor maximinus_ hehe ;)
2010-01-30T15:30:30  <maximinus_> ok, well I propose we have a 2-headed approach over the next month
2010-01-30T15:30:40  <shevy> but ok we hope to change that soon
2010-01-30T15:31:06  <maximinus_> first, let's all have a major moan over the state of the code
2010-01-30T15:31:10  <shevy> hmm what was the other name... orlandov or something
2010-01-30T15:31:21  <Zenbitz> superfluid
2010-01-30T15:31:24  <barra_home> haven't heard from him in weeks
2010-01-30T15:31:30  <maximinus_> and fix what anyone perceives to be a problem
2010-01-30T15:31:32  <barra_home> yep, that's the 2nd username he uses Zenbitz
2010-01-30T15:31:37  <shevy> ok maximinus_ i think you have to pick up from almost zero :)
2010-01-30T15:31:47  <Beliar> b0rland, or something is his other
2010-01-30T15:31:55  <barra_home> haven't seen him lately either
2010-01-30T15:31:56  <Beliar> i think
2010-01-30T15:32:01  <barra_home> nah
2010-01-30T15:32:06  <barra_home> b0rland just uses b0rland as username
2010-01-30T15:32:18  <Beliar> ah
2010-01-30T15:32:19  <barra_home> superfluid / orlandov is one person
2010-01-30T15:32:27  <maximinus_> second point: I suggest we clear up the tech demo points, and move on from there
2010-01-30T15:32:55  <maximinus_> tech demo trac issues are quite small, if we ignore the merge inventory / quest / dialog engine one
2010-01-30T15:33:00  <shevy> I think we can ignore the other departments for now.
2010-01-30T15:33:36  <maximinus_> the basic parpg code works, so refactoring should be easy
2010-01-30T15:33:41  <maximinus_> but the important point is...
2010-01-30T15:33:48  <shevy> let me jump into maximinus_ and bring the hot topic of the techdemo into it quickly :)
2010-01-30T15:33:54  <barra_home> so can we close the list of active devs topic?
2010-01-30T15:33:59  <shevy> well
2010-01-30T15:34:03  <maximinus_> we don't want to be talking about re-factoring in a few months time
2010-01-30T15:34:14  <shevy> actually i would like to know how many non-IRC using guys could be active
2010-01-30T15:34:24  <shevy> anyone knows why sirren is away for instance? Artifice? hmm
2010-01-30T15:34:37  <Q_x> Gaspard? Justin?
2010-01-30T15:34:38  <shevy> oh and Gaspard
2010-01-30T15:34:41  <shevy> yeah true true
2010-01-30T15:34:42  <maximinus_> nobody replied in the forum and said "I can't be here"
2010-01-30T15:34:54  <Zenbitz> Elie De Brauwer = ami-eji right?
2010-01-30T15:34:57  <shevy> yep
2010-01-30T15:34:58  <barra_home> not sure where they are
2010-01-30T15:35:01  <barra_home> yep Zenbitz
2010-01-30T15:35:11  <barra_home> but not a  good sign that no 3d artist showed up
2010-01-30T15:35:15  <Zenbitz> I am just scanning the commit logs
2010-01-30T15:35:17  <shevy> ok, let's close that topic for now barra_home, we'll get to see when they can be more active again in the future
2010-01-30T15:35:32  <shevy> maximinus_ jumped to the code structure so let's bring that in
2010-01-30T15:35:47  <shevy> <maximinus_> we don't want to be talking about re-factoring in a few months time <-- hehe
2010-01-30T15:35:53  <maximinus_> sorry about that, it's pretty late here :-)
2010-01-30T15:36:05  <shevy> no problem, i wonder if we will have such a deja-vu in a few months
2010-01-30T15:36:23  <maximinus_> I want the code dept to not be talking about re-factoring
2010-01-30T15:36:41  <maximinus_> so, we agree a structure, and stick to it
2010-01-30T15:37:10  <maximinus_> let's all speak out loud, have a good discussion on the forums
2010-01-30T15:37:33  <maximinus_> and then, in the next 2-3 weeks, get it sorted
2010-01-30T15:37:42  <shevy> sounds good. better than to disagree and not much gets implemented as a result
2010-01-30T15:37:46  <maximinus_> Taldor proposed some reasonable changes
2010-01-30T15:37:56  <barra_home> sounds like a good plan to me; hopefully there is some feedback by the other programmers
2010-01-30T15:38:34  <shevy> For anyone who wants to read up on the changes see http://forums.parpg.net/index.php?topic=648.0
2010-01-30T15:38:35  <maximinus_> I'm prepared to do the boring text editing work, if need be
2010-01-30T15:38:35  <UH-Guard2> Title: Code improvement proposals (at forums.parpg.net)
2010-01-30T15:39:30  <Zenbitz> I have advocated in the past having a single head of dept that has decision making power (not absolute power)
2010-01-30T15:39:42  <shevy> maximinus_ seems like a great choice :)
2010-01-30T15:39:42  <Zenbitz> but "conflict  resolution" power
2010-01-30T15:40:51  <barra_home> (list of dev status sum up: http://wiki.parpg.net/Meeting:2010/01/30#Developer_activity)
2010-01-30T15:40:52  <UH-Guard2> Title: Meeting:2010/01/30 - Post-Apocalyptic RPG wiki (at wiki.parpg.net)
2010-01-30T15:41:11  <shevy> hmm did Kaydeth assign people to do certain coding tasks? or how did they find out what they should do next... did they look at trac tickets and decide on their own?
2010-01-30T15:41:17  <maximinus_> ok, then, any other devs want to comment?
2010-01-30T15:41:31  <maximinus_> it seems the focus was on trac tickets
2010-01-30T15:41:36  <barra_home> we can only fix what we're aware of maximinus_
2010-01-30T15:41:37  <maximinus_> that's the imperssion I got
2010-01-30T15:41:40  <Zenbitz> I think in FOSS project programmers have to pick their own tasks
2010-01-30T15:41:51  <Zenbitz> maximinus would just make sure people weren't clashing
2010-01-30T15:41:54  <maximinus_> agree with Zenbitz
2010-01-30T15:41:56  <barra_home> so encouraging feedback and after that implementing the agreed upon suggestions sounds good to me
2010-01-30T15:42:12  <shevy> ok. just wondering who gets to pick up tickets they don't want to touch actually :)
2010-01-30T15:42:20  <Vaporice> Nobody really got assigned to a task
2010-01-30T15:42:37  <barra_home> can we agree upon that all non-trivial programming tasks should have a trac ticket?
2010-01-30T15:42:47  <Zenbitz> max can either do them himself or ask someone (nicely) to work on them
2010-01-30T15:42:53  <maximinus_> I agree with a trac ticket
2010-01-30T15:43:00  <Beliar> Yea
2010-01-30T15:43:04  <Vaporice> hmmm
2010-01-30T15:43:09  <Zenbitz> barra_home:  agreed for some definition of "non-trivial"
2010-01-30T15:43:26  <barra_home> oki, as long as the tasks are in trac, I'm fine with whatever workflow the department lead implements
2010-01-30T15:43:41  <barra_home> non-trivial = you can't finish the work on it without taking a break
2010-01-30T15:43:42  <shevy> ok, so if most are fine with trac tickets then I guess we stick to that
2010-01-30T15:43:51  <maximinus_> I would rather that we are not so demo-orientated in the future, that's all
2010-01-30T15:43:52  <pirum> I like to make tickets for quite small tasks as well. keeps the work explicit and organized, and makes you feel good to close the ticket :)
2010-01-30T15:44:01  <barra_home> so if you can't implement it within 1-2 hours, it needs a ticket
2010-01-30T15:44:11  <barra_home> yes and no pirum
2010-01-30T15:44:18  <maximinus_> after all, I think I proposed a demo 7 months ago, and here we still are
2010-01-30T15:44:23  <barra_home> the obvious drawback is that writing tickets is boring and tedious
2010-01-30T15:44:27  <pirum> the problem is, if there's no ticket, other devs might not know what you're doing
2010-01-30T15:44:49  <shevy> yeah maximinus_ i'll soon get to the techdemo stuff. first, let's finish code structure/architecture
2010-01-30T15:44:59  <barra_home> yep, I'm an advocate of tracifying almost all tasks, but you have to see that there are certain drawbacks as well
2010-01-30T15:45:01  <maximinus_> one last thing, I am more likely to respond to forum discussions rather than trac tickets
2010-01-30T15:45:02  <Zenbitz> so the net obvious question ... who writes trac tickets?
2010-01-30T15:45:14  <Zenbitz> net = next
2010-01-30T15:45:22  <barra_home> all active devs
2010-01-30T15:45:35  <maximinus_> Zenbitz as always offers the logical question
2010-01-30T15:45:51  <barra_home> I think we can tackle this from a lead by example perspective
2010-01-30T15:46:16  <maximinus_> I think trac tickets should be VERY specific or pretty loose
2010-01-30T15:46:27  <barra_home> you can have meta tickets
2010-01-30T15:46:36  <barra_home> with associated more detailed sub tickets
2010-01-30T15:46:41  <shevy> aha
2010-01-30T15:46:45  <barra_home> e.g. meta ticket: implement quest engine
2010-01-30T15:46:59  <Zenbitz> the one difficulty I find with the trac system (not to say that's a killer issue) is that it's a barrier to programmers actually figuring out what the heck is going on
2010-01-30T15:47:03  <barra_home> and more detailed sub tickets how to do that
2010-01-30T15:47:18  <barra_home> hmm could you elaborate on that Zenbitz ?
2010-01-30T15:47:26  <shevy> there are like 45 trac tickets for 3D / graphics stuff but we have almost noone who can close them right now
2010-01-30T15:47:35  <maximinus_> well, I'd be more keen on making sure that when a coder joins
2010-01-30T15:47:41  <maximinus_> we can offer a task they are interested in
2010-01-30T15:47:45  <shevy> no wait. mixed graphics/dialogue, sorry.
2010-01-30T15:47:51  <Zenbitz> if I write a meta ticket like "implment quest engine"
2010-01-30T15:47:54  <maximinus_> and so they can get on with code
2010-01-30T15:48:11  <maximinus_> rather than solve a specific trac ticket
2010-01-30T15:48:30  <maximinus_> you know, scratch an itch and so on.....
2010-01-30T15:48:37  <shevy> not a bad point, easy tickets would make it easier for non-perfect programmers to join, and get to know the code?
2010-01-30T15:48:42  <Zenbitz> you have to have a pretty deep knowledge of the architecture to have a hope of implementing something useful.  This is, I think, why the current quest/dialog system was never connected properly to the rest of the game.
2010-01-30T15:49:02  <Zenbitz> probably this becomes less and less of an isssue as the code is more developed
2010-01-30T15:49:32  <maximinus_> ok, well the point is we should be helpful to new coders
2010-01-30T15:49:34  <Zenbitz> to clarify:  It's just a (IMHO) a weakness we need to be aware of.
2010-01-30T15:49:49  <maximinus_> we need to find out what they want to do / can offer
2010-01-30T15:50:06  <maximinus_> the code clean up should help
2010-01-30T15:50:10  <barra_home> definately, but you can always send them to a trac ticket that seems to suit their needs
2010-01-30T15:50:13  <shevy> Ok, so let's get this with trac. We agree that we prefer to have small, well defined trac tickets?
2010-01-30T15:50:20  <Zenbitz> shevy - most of those dialog tickets are done... I just would like to get a second pass edit at them once you can play through them in-game
2010-01-30T15:50:33  <maximinus_> agreed, at least on the code side
2010-01-30T15:50:37  <barra_home> shevy> Ok, so let's get this with trac. We agree that we prefer to have small, well defined trac tickets?
2010-01-30T15:50:41  <barra_home> if possible: yes
2010-01-30T15:50:56  <barra_home> obviously it's hard to write detailed tickets without some indepth knowledge
2010-01-30T15:52:26  <shevy> Let's go back to the item "Lack of clear architecture".
2010-01-30T15:52:38  <barra_home> I think we partially addressed this
2010-01-30T15:52:39  * shevy scrolls back to what maximinus_ wrote ...
2010-01-30T15:52:47  <maximinus_> any other comments from devs?
2010-01-30T15:52:54  <barra_home> there is a thread at the forums and we'll be collecting feedback there and implement it after that
2010-01-30T15:53:04  <maximinus_> barra_home, agreed
2010-01-30T15:53:20  <shevy> Ok. So if noone wants to say anything more we'll jump to the next item soon. :)
2010-01-30T15:53:26  <maximinus_> let's set a deadline: moan and bitch until, say Feb 14th
2010-01-30T15:53:30  <shevy> Which would be the techdemo!!!
2010-01-30T15:53:30  <maximinus_> then wee implement
2010-01-30T15:53:35  <barra_home> we can try to bring in an expert at some point, somebody who has designed a few games from scratched
2010-01-30T15:53:37  <barra_home> * scratch
2010-01-30T15:53:49  <shevy> deadline for code architecture?
2010-01-30T15:53:53  <maximinus_> (feb 14th is chinese new year, lots of free time!)
2010-01-30T15:53:58  <shevy> lol
2010-01-30T15:54:01  <barra_home> for architecture improvement proposals
2010-01-30T15:54:06  <shevy> ah I see
2010-01-30T15:54:23  <shevy> I think we should mention that in the blog update too, if we agree on that.
2010-01-30T15:54:40  <shevy> Anyway! If there is nothing else on that topic, I'd like to switch to the Techdemo now.
2010-01-30T15:54:42  <barra_home> I would like to express some thoughts about the FIFE 0.3.0 topic after the architecture topic is delt with
2010-01-30T15:54:54  <barra_home> that's fine with me as well
2010-01-30T15:54:57  <maximinus_> ok, let's do the techdemo
2010-01-30T15:55:23  <shevy> The Techdemo had many good things and a few bad things in my opinion.
2010-01-30T15:55:30  <maximinus_> ok
2010-01-30T15:55:37  <shevy> The good things were that we got to focus on quests (and graphics, and NPCs etc..), that we fleshed out ~somewhat a part of the PARPG world background.
2010-01-30T15:56:06  <Zenbitz> the bad thing was that no one could make a good map
2010-01-30T15:56:16  <shevy> And also, that we saw where we lacked. IMO the quest engine / dialogue engine mixup isn't that elegant
2010-01-30T15:56:27  <maximinus_> the open-source philosophy is release early, release often. We've failed there so far
2010-01-30T15:56:45  <Zenbitz> that's not really fair
2010-01-30T15:56:52  <shevy> From the bad things, I would also like to mention that it seems as if we all focussed only on the techdemo, and ignored everything else.
2010-01-30T15:56:53  <maximinus_> ???
2010-01-30T15:57:06  <Q_x> basically what I see is to polish and fill holes in what we have and release it now.
2010-01-30T15:57:23  <maximinus_> Q_x, agreed
2010-01-30T15:57:26  <shevy> How about ~end of february? Or like ... between 20-28 february 2010
2010-01-30T15:57:30  <Zenbitz> most OS projects are driven AT FIRST by a single dedicated programmer who produces a complete "thing" which is then extended and expanded by others
2010-01-30T15:57:48  <maximinus_> the code element is not that far away, really
2010-01-30T15:58:00  <barra_home> I'm with maximinus in this case
2010-01-30T15:58:08  <barra_home> there are basically two options IMO
2010-01-30T15:58:21  <maximinus_> I would prefer not to concentrate on too many demos in the future
2010-01-30T15:58:27  <barra_home> take what we have, fix the most obvious issues and release it to attract new contributors
2010-01-30T15:58:37  <Zenbitz> all I am trying to say is that the first release is the hardest
2010-01-30T15:58:39  <barra_home> or take quite some time (3-4 months) to really polish it
2010-01-30T15:58:40  <maximinus_> just a regular binary download update
2010-01-30T15:58:56  <barra_home> like SVN snapshots maximinus_ ?
2010-01-30T15:59:17  <maximinus_> I think that parpg has enough graphics, code and music to stand on it's own 2 feet right now
2010-01-30T15:59:42  <maximinus_> obviously we could polish forever
2010-01-30T15:59:42  <barra_home> I personally would prefer to release earlier than later as well
2010-01-30T15:59:59  <Q_x> binary after each major progress, like fixing a major bug or adding a quest
2010-01-30T16:00:01  <shevy> well, take quite some time to polish it sounds like a bad idea, honestly. We could really need more active people rather than put the amount of work on the currently (or soon-to-be-more) active guys
2010-01-30T16:00:09  <barra_home> if you check out the first FIFE release, you'll see that it was even far more basic than what we have in place for PARPG now
2010-01-30T16:00:35  <barra_home> as soon as there is a first official package, it will be easier to attract additional contributors
2010-01-30T16:00:44  <maximinus_> release an OK release now is better than a perfect release never!
2010-01-30T16:00:45  <barra_home> because you don't have to explain to them how to build from SVN
2010-01-30T16:00:59  <barra_home> they simply download and install FIFE, download the PARPG package and fire things up
2010-01-30T16:01:10  <maximinus_> barra_home, yes maybe like SVN snapshots
2010-01-30T16:01:23  <Zenbitz> am I the one arguing for polish?   I guess all I want to see is a release where one can work through all the dialog options as written
2010-01-30T16:01:24  <barra_home> this said: I won't have time to help with release preparations while I take my break
2010-01-30T16:02:07  <maximinus_> kinda agreed zenbitz, however I'm not one for fixing the current dialog engine
2010-01-30T16:02:08  <Q_x> Zenbitz, I think you're pointing into alpha release
2010-01-30T16:02:14  <shevy> ok let's go back to focus on the techdemo. should we drop it? release it now? release it later, and if later, when?
2010-01-30T16:02:15  <barra_home> but some kind of deadline would help
2010-01-30T16:02:41  <maximinus_> Zenbitz, or at least fixing the current code with a small patch
2010-01-30T16:02:42  <Q_x> barra_home, not a deadline but things to do in first place
2010-01-30T16:02:51  <shevy> we could use the current dialogue engine for the techdemo until we have something better :>
2010-01-30T16:02:57  <Zenbitz> yes I think code-wise it's very close
2010-01-30T16:03:05  <barra_home> IMO it would be a good idea to have some kind of deadline; we'll try to get as much originally plant content into it as possible and when the deadline is nearing, we can take a week to fix any obvious problems and release
2010-01-30T16:03:13  <Zenbitz> we absolultey should use the dialogue engine
2010-01-30T16:03:23  <shevy> yup, I would like a deadline as well
2010-01-30T16:03:24  <Zenbitz> it works fine, it's just not going to scale well
2010-01-30T16:03:27  <barra_home> that's another important point
2010-01-30T16:03:33  <maximinus_> Zenbitz, the current dialog engine?
2010-01-30T16:03:35  <barra_home> (q_x)
2010-01-30T16:03:56  <Zenbitz> yes, its just doesn't talk to the inventory system
2010-01-30T16:04:03  <barra_home> right now we lack a clear decision what is planned to be part of the techdemo and what shouldn't be part of it
2010-01-30T16:04:13  <Zenbitz> becaue there really isn't one
2010-01-30T16:04:19  <Q_x> do we have any no-go things preventing release of the techdemo ASAP?
2010-01-30T16:04:25  <barra_home> so we should compile a list of features still missing and also note down what shouldn't be part of the techdemo
2010-01-30T16:04:34  <maximinus_> ok, well not talking to the inventory system sounds quite makor
2010-01-30T16:04:41  <maximinus_> ...major...
2010-01-30T16:04:43  <Q_x> dialog/quest/inventory issues
2010-01-30T16:04:46  <maximinus_> so i wuld drop that
2010-01-30T16:04:49  <shevy> hmm can a player do the two demo quests right now?
2010-01-30T16:04:58  <barra_home> nope
2010-01-30T16:05:02  <Zenbitz> huh?  "inventory" is just a list that is attached to an NPC!
2010-01-30T16:05:05  <barra_home> at least not without using the console
2010-01-30T16:05:11  <shevy> hehe
2010-01-30T16:05:12  <Zenbitz> shevy - you can if you manually set the flags
2010-01-30T16:05:22  <Zenbitz> (in console)
2010-01-30T16:05:35  <shevy> that might be actually a fun release :) people get to learn the console that way
2010-01-30T16:05:36  <barra_home> can we agree on trying to compile a list of techdemo content and features that need fixing and once we've tackled this list to release the techdemo?
2010-01-30T16:05:43  <Zenbitz> this actually summarizes it:
2010-01-30T16:05:44  <Zenbitz> http://parpg-trac.cvsdude.com/parpg/ticket/229
2010-01-30T16:05:45  <UH-Guard2> Title: #229 (Reconcile Inventory, Dialog, and Quest engine - Techdemo) – PARPG project tracker (at parpg-trac.cvsdude.com)
2010-01-30T16:05:50  <Zenbitz> sorry for the crappy formatting
2010-01-30T16:05:59  <maximinus_> mm.. that's a big trac ticket
2010-01-30T16:06:00  <shevy> barra_home, i am fine with this BUT I would also really like to have a deadline rather than push the techdemo at the end of 2010
2010-01-30T16:06:02  <Q_x> barra_home, moving lacking graphics into SVN
2010-01-30T16:06:14  <maximinus_> what's the point of a techdemo?
2010-01-30T16:06:16  <barra_home> I'm for a deadline
2010-01-30T16:06:24  <barra_home> good point maximinus_
2010-01-30T16:06:24  <maximinus_> to show that we've done some work
2010-01-30T16:06:37  <Beliar> saving a game doesn't currently work Q_x, don't know how much of an issue it would be currently
2010-01-30T16:06:38  <barra_home> and to say: we need some help to tackle bigger things
2010-01-30T16:06:46  <shevy> i guess the techdemo should showcase that a) what we manage to achieve (or fail to do so) b) incite interest in new people (whether they are just players, developers, writers etc...)
2010-01-30T16:06:53  <maximinus_> we don't need it to have a working quest
2010-01-30T16:06:58  <Q_x> and point where we're going to
2010-01-30T16:07:03  <barra_home> yep, save/load would be on my list of things to fix before releasing it Beliar
2010-01-30T16:07:09  <maximinus_> just to say "this is where we are"
2010-01-30T16:07:21  <barra_home> I'm with maximinus ehre
2010-01-30T16:07:24  <barra_home> * here
2010-01-30T16:07:33  <shevy> so release what we have right now and say this is the techdemo?
2010-01-30T16:07:47  <Zenbitz> that's option 1
2010-01-30T16:07:47  <Q_x> shevy, more or less, yes
2010-01-30T16:08:16  <maximinus_> we agreed to review the code...
2010-01-30T16:08:17  <Zenbitz> option 2 would be what we have now + trac 229
2010-01-30T16:08:22  <barra_home> from a public relations point of view you can be totally up front that we have released it in this state because we lack active devs and therefore decided to release early
2010-01-30T16:08:37  <shevy> good point
2010-01-30T16:08:39  <Zenbitz> option3 would be 229 + new map
2010-01-30T16:08:59  <barra_home> if somebody builds the map, that's fine with me
2010-01-30T16:09:00  <Q_x> barra_home, we have the few devs still ative!
2010-01-30T16:09:01  * shevy hugs his two techdemo quests one last time for a goodbye - for now.
2010-01-30T16:09:10  <maximinus_> I say deadline in 4-5 weeks time giving us some options re-factoring
2010-01-30T16:09:17  <barra_home> that's fine with me
2010-01-30T16:09:30  <maximinus_> I.e., middle of March
2010-01-30T16:09:37  <maximinus_> as long as we stick with that
2010-01-30T16:09:44  <Zenbitz> April 1st?
2010-01-30T16:09:48  <shevy> guys...
2010-01-30T16:09:54  <shevy> you push it back and back again ...
2010-01-30T16:10:00  <shevy> Soon someone suggest May
2010-01-30T16:10:02  <barra_home> why is that?
2010-01-30T16:10:19  <barra_home> seriously: we just need to agree upon a date
2010-01-30T16:10:32  <maximinus_> March 10th
2010-01-30T16:10:37  <barra_home> and move into: just fix obvious bugs mode one week before it
2010-01-30T16:10:47  <shevy> Ok, I would have said end of february but march 10th is almost the same.
2010-01-30T16:10:51  <maximinus_> whatever else happens
2010-01-30T16:10:52  <barra_home> the final week would be used for figuring out packaging as well
2010-01-30T16:11:04  <barra_home> alrighty, everyone okay with march 10th?
2010-01-30T16:11:07  <Zenbitz> agreed
2010-01-30T16:11:09  <shevy> Everyone else fine with march 10th? or something else we forgot here?
2010-01-30T16:11:23  <maximinus_> A release is better than no release
2010-01-30T16:11:23  <Zenbitz> however I don't promise not to hack the code to get my quests to work
2010-01-30T16:11:31  <Q_x> fine with 10th
2010-01-30T16:11:32  <barra_home> so we would move into bugfix and packaging mode at March, 1st
2010-01-30T16:11:33  <maximinus_> ok, Zenbitz!!!
2010-01-30T16:11:40  <shevy> trac #229 sounds a bit big indeed btw
2010-01-30T16:11:42  * Beliar is fine with the date too
2010-01-30T16:11:53  <maximinus_> ok, done
2010-01-30T16:12:08  <shevy> Let's now jump to "Still to tackle"
2010-01-30T16:12:09  <barra_home> alrighty, any other techdemo related points to discuss?
2010-01-30T16:12:18  <shevy> Good point
2010-01-30T16:12:21  <maximinus_> jeez, that's a big topic
2010-01-30T16:12:30  <barra_home> we'll tackle it quick
2010-01-30T16:12:31  * shevy walks around trying to find anyone who wants to say something about the Techdemo.
2010-01-30T16:12:38  *** prock is now known as prock|afk
2010-01-30T16:12:40  <CIA-76> FIFE: prock * r3189 /trunk/engine/core/view/camera.cpp: Fixed a small bug where the facing_angle wasn't being initialized.
2010-01-30T16:12:48  <maximinus_> I can only speak for code
2010-01-30T16:12:52  <shevy> Good, let's be fast here.
2010-01-30T16:12:53  <barra_home> shoot
2010-01-30T16:12:54  <shevy> "Required Art"
2010-01-30T16:13:00  <maximinus_> we have a big lack of gfx guys here tonight
2010-01-30T16:13:08  <shevy> I am not sure what we can do here. If we don't have artists ... hmm
2010-01-30T16:13:24  <Q_x> shevy, post a techdemo
2010-01-30T16:13:27  <shevy> :)
2010-01-30T16:13:36  <Zenbitz> I wll nag my local artist friends again
2010-01-30T16:13:54  *** ChanServ has quit IRC
2010-01-30T16:13:57  <barra_home> I think the situation will improve once there is an actual binary package of PARPG
2010-01-30T16:14:02  <Zenbitz> I think not having a good framework or consistent style really hurts art dept.
2010-01-30T16:14:02  <shevy> ah
2010-01-30T16:14:07  <barra_home> so artists can try it without having to build from source
2010-01-30T16:14:10  <Zenbitz> much more so than programming
2010-01-30T16:14:23  <barra_home> it all comes down to people willing to step up Zenbitz
2010-01-30T16:14:33  <shevy> barra_home, note down that I have to advertize on forums and stuff. else i forget it  ;)
2010-01-30T16:14:48  <Zenbitz> great point there barra_home... I forgot you have to install from SVN
2010-01-30T16:14:55  <shevy> I think if the artists notice that the project moves along again they'll step up more readily.
2010-01-30T16:15:15  <Q_x> Zenbitz, graphics team is pretty even and clarified in aesthetics
2010-01-30T16:15:15  <maximinus_> yeh, that SVN install is a PITA even for me as a coder :-)
2010-01-30T16:15:35  <Q_x> maximinus_, it was pretty easy for me today
2010-01-30T16:15:43  <pirum> I did it yesterday, no issues
2010-01-30T16:15:49  <barra_home> there is already a list of important project management tasks at the wiki shevy
2010-01-30T16:15:54  <shevy> Let's tackle the next issue, as it was already mentioned: "Packaging of the techdemo"
2010-01-30T16:15:59  <pirum> although the hack to get the map editor to run doesn't work on my setup
2010-01-30T16:16:00  <barra_home> http://wiki.parpg.net/List_of_important_project_management_tasks
2010-01-30T16:16:01  <UH-Guard2> Title: List of important project management tasks - Post-Apocalyptic RPG wiki (at wiki.parpg.net)
2010-01-30T16:16:05  <maximinus_> perhaps I'm lazier than you lot :-)
2010-01-30T16:16:13  <barra_home> we should postpone the packaging point shevy
2010-01-30T16:16:22  <Zenbitz> prium... that's OK, no one can use the map editor except barra anyway!
2010-01-30T16:16:24  <barra_home> because packaging will be quite different once we've moved to FIFE 0.3.0
2010-01-30T16:16:39  <barra_home> due changes introduced in this release
2010-01-30T16:16:41  <shevy> maximinus_ well, if it takes too much effort... not everyone wants to go too much effort just to try out a game
2010-01-30T16:16:50  <barra_home> Zenbitz> prium... that's OK, no one can use the map editor except barra anyway!
2010-01-30T16:17:07  <barra_home> there is a guide how to use it at the wiki
2010-01-30T16:17:13  <shevy> :D
2010-01-30T16:17:16  <pirum> why would FIFE 0.3 change packaging?
2010-01-30T16:17:20  <barra_home> though it's far from perfect or being complete
2010-01-30T16:17:24  <Zenbitz> I know, I tried it
2010-01-30T16:17:35  <barra_home> because of the new python module import scheme
2010-01-30T16:17:38  <Zenbitz> it's still hard to use.  I mean, better than hacking xml I suppose
2010-01-30T16:17:41  <shevy> You see how much we need barra! :D
2010-01-30T16:17:52  <barra_home> so we don't depend upon a certain hardcoded directory structure anymore
2010-01-30T16:18:06  <shevy> less hardcoded stuff always sounds nice
2010-01-30T16:18:12  <barra_home> you can place the PARPG folder anywhere you like
2010-01-30T16:18:24  <pirum> I suggest wrapping FIFE into the tech demo, rather than having it as a dependency
2010-01-30T16:18:35  <barra_home> that's an option as well
2010-01-30T16:18:39  <shevy> I think that is not bad
2010-01-30T16:18:42  <pirum> that way if omre changes happen to FIFE, the original tech demo will still work
2010-01-30T16:18:47  <Q_x> pirum, agreed
2010-01-30T16:18:48  <barra_home> on linux there are FIFE 0.3.0 packages
2010-01-30T16:18:54  <maximinus_> agree with pirum
2010-01-30T16:19:00  <barra_home> on win32, you could ship a custom FIFE snapshot with it
2010-01-30T16:19:09  *** ChanServ has joined #parpg
2010-01-30T16:19:09  *** barjavel.freenode.net sets mode: +o ChanServ
2010-01-30T16:19:13  <pirum> I'm on arch linux and there's only a fife-svn package, so if fife changes again parpg will quickly break :-/
2010-01-30T16:19:14  <barra_home> by the time we release the techdemo, FIFE 0.3.1 should be available
2010-01-30T16:19:35  <barra_home> I can only speak for win32, as that's what I run
2010-01-30T16:19:38  <maximinus_> guys, it's seriously late here, my son will wake up in 5.5 hours, really gotta go...
2010-01-30T16:19:49  <shevy> ok maximinus_
2010-01-30T16:19:51  <shevy> good night maximinus_ :)
2010-01-30T16:19:57  <maximinus_> good luck, thanks for the chat
2010-01-30T16:19:59  <barra_home> but we can get inspired by the UH devs and how they packaged their FIFE-based game
2010-01-30T16:20:02  <pirum> later maximinus_
2010-01-30T16:20:03  <barra_home> good night maximinus_
2010-01-30T16:20:04  <maximinus_> it's 00:20 here!
2010-01-30T16:20:05  <Zenbitz> my son just woke up!
2010-01-30T16:20:10  <pirum> I just woke up!
2010-01-30T16:20:14  <maximinus_> cya all soon
2010-01-30T16:20:14  *** Domtron_Vox has joined #parpg
2010-01-30T16:20:19  <Zenbitz> l8r
2010-01-30T16:20:27  <barra_home> later
2010-01-30T16:20:31  <Beliar> cya
2010-01-30T16:20:32  *** maximinus_ has quit IRC
2010-01-30T16:20:47  <shevy> We are already discussing packaging right?
2010-01-30T16:20:53  <barra_home> so let's say that we'll investigate packaging in the final techdemo week
2010-01-30T16:20:58  <shevy> "Packaging of the techdemo for the supported platforms: Linux, Mac, Win32"
2010-01-30T16:21:04  <barra_home> I think it simply needs research
2010-01-30T16:21:12  <shevy> Hmm, sounds good as well. Should mention that in blog update (added for channel log)
2010-01-30T16:21:13  <barra_home> nothing we can really do in a useful way in this meeting
2010-01-30T16:21:24  <shevy> Yup
2010-01-30T16:21:35  <barra_home> yep, I'll do a last blog update, summarizing the results of the meeting at Monday
2010-01-30T16:21:44  <shevy> Let's jump to what Q_x suggested: The General inventory list http://wiki.parpg.net/General_Inventory_List
2010-01-30T16:21:45  <UH-Guard2> Title: General Inventory List - Post-Apocalyptic RPG wiki (at wiki.parpg.net)
2010-01-30T16:22:13  <shevy> I think ideally it would be nice if the wiki could these kind of things automatically
2010-01-30T16:22:18  <shevy> *could get
2010-01-30T16:22:35  <shevy> And apparently we lack images :/
2010-01-30T16:22:39  <Q_x> shevy, into and out of SVN?
2010-01-30T16:23:12  <shevy> I actually don't know, but on a browsergame they retrieve all this stuff and display it on a wiki nicely
2010-01-30T16:23:13  <Q_x> shevy, the inventory images may be good thing to start for newcomers
2010-01-30T16:23:36  <shevy> Agreed
2010-01-30T16:23:51  <Zenbitz> by feature-complete, do you mean that the table has all the columns we need, or all the rows?  Certainly not the latter
2010-01-30T16:24:00  <shevy> Raw fish ... cheesecake ... pancake
2010-01-30T16:24:06  <Q_x> having lots of not-so-urgent work was my point for making it
2010-01-30T16:24:11  <shevy> :)
2010-01-30T16:24:37  <Q_x> but - can anyone benefit from it?
2010-01-30T16:24:48  <shevy> Such listings are always nice to have
2010-01-30T16:24:55  <Q_x> or is it just more work when moving things?
2010-01-30T16:25:10  <shevy> ("Where can I find the alien blaster?")
2010-01-30T16:25:26  <barra_home> PARPG is low tech ;-)
2010-01-30T16:25:32  <shevy> was just kidding :)
2010-01-30T16:25:42  <Q_x> me? the alien one?
2010-01-30T16:25:55  <shevy> i saw that on some fallout 3 youtube video :D
2010-01-30T16:25:58  <barra_home> see, you mislead Q_x
2010-01-30T16:26:01  *** Meinmartini has joined #parpg
2010-01-30T16:26:09  <barra_home> anyway back to topic
2010-01-30T16:26:11  <barra_home> hi Meinmartini
2010-01-30T16:26:41  <Zenbitz> I like the list, I think it will be useful in the future where we have actual writers and level designers
2010-01-30T16:26:45  <Vaporice> hey guys i've got to go to :/ the multitasking between work and chat doesn't really work out =P I'll read the logs later and i'll check the forums
2010-01-30T16:26:48  <shevy> cya Vaporice
2010-01-30T16:26:54  <barra_home> later Vaporice
2010-01-30T16:27:03  *** Vaporice has quit IRC
2010-01-30T16:27:12  <shevy> Ok let's see what's else to discuss.
2010-01-30T16:27:12  <Q_x> ok, so maybe we can make this better suited for some functions, like adding related audio sound to the table
2010-01-30T16:27:19  *** Wr4i7h has joined #parpg
2010-01-30T16:27:24  <shevy> hmm Audio sound? of cake?
2010-01-30T16:27:28  * shevy scratches his head.
2010-01-30T16:27:37  <Q_x> shotgun?
2010-01-30T16:27:42  <shevy> ah :)
2010-01-30T16:27:57  <shevy> shotgun shooting at cake! or wolves... or NPCs ... now that's better
2010-01-30T16:28:12  <Beliar> well, you could make a munching sound when eating it :D
2010-01-30T16:28:25  <shevy> hmm that's a pretty big table Q_x
2010-01-30T16:28:27  <Zenbitz> omnomnom.ogg
2010-01-30T16:28:39  <barra_home> is there any link to the list at the wiki Q_x?
2010-01-30T16:28:51  <shevy> yeah then our audio guys would have something else to do rather than doing soundtheme tracks :D
2010-01-30T16:28:51  <Q_x> shevy, lotta fun fur ewerywun
2010-01-30T16:29:03  <barra_home> most of them are composers
2010-01-30T16:29:07  <barra_home> not sound effects engineers
2010-01-30T16:29:14  <shevy> true
2010-01-30T16:29:24  <Q_x> barra_home, no link yet, as it is WIP still
2010-01-30T16:29:32  <barra_home> this said: sound effects aren't essential for a first release
2010-01-30T16:29:45  <shevy> Let's jump to something else though.
2010-01-30T16:29:47  <barra_home> as a rule of thumb: always find a place to link to it Q_x
2010-01-30T16:29:50  <barra_home> even if WIP
2010-01-30T16:29:56  <shevy> "Emergency plan: Barra will take a break for two months; how can we cope with his temporary departure?"
2010-01-30T16:29:58  <barra_home> otherwhise the article will be forgotten
2010-01-30T16:30:01  <shevy> ^^^ important topic :)
2010-01-30T16:30:03  <Q_x> barra_home, sure, this is for years of working slowly upon it
2010-01-30T16:30:34  <barra_home> I've compiled a list of tasks in the project management department
2010-01-30T16:30:40  <shevy> especially if we do stick to the deadline, we will have to release without barra_home
2010-01-30T16:30:49  <barra_home> http://wiki.parpg.net/List_of_important_project_management_tasks
2010-01-30T16:30:50  <UH-Guard2> Title: List of important project management tasks - Post-Apocalyptic RPG wiki (at wiki.parpg.net)
2010-01-30T16:30:54  <shevy> Can we actually do a release without barra_home right now?
2010-01-30T16:31:09  <barra_home> not within 5 minutes :-)
2010-01-30T16:31:20  <barra_home> releasing without me is no problem AFAICT
2010-01-30T16:31:25  <shevy> Ok, let's put another scenario. What if barra_home abandons us :)
2010-01-30T16:31:28  <Zenbitz> organize meetings!
2010-01-30T16:31:31  <shevy> ok
2010-01-30T16:31:40  <Zenbitz> (that's not on the list)
2010-01-30T16:31:51  <shevy> We are thinking here of worst case scenarios! At least for 2010
2010-01-30T16:32:15  <shevy> Actually... we really need new people :/
2010-01-30T16:32:18  <Zenbitz> barra is release manager as well... which I guess is a different web page
2010-01-30T16:32:26  <Meinmartini> How are tasks organized right now. Just pick and choose?
2010-01-30T16:32:34  <barra_home> shevy has sourceforge access
2010-01-30T16:32:38  <Meinmartini> Or are there actually some assignments set out to certain folk?
2010-01-30T16:32:39  <barra_home> so he can upload releases there
2010-01-30T16:32:48  <Zenbitz> but does he know how to make one?
2010-01-30T16:33:01  <barra_home> for which platform Zenbitz ?
2010-01-30T16:33:10  <shevy> Zenbitz, right now I am pretty clueless but I can learn
2010-01-30T16:33:12  <Zenbitz> for all... I guess...
2010-01-30T16:33:12  <barra_home> packaging would have to be figured out by the programming department
2010-01-30T16:33:16  <barra_home> it's not part of project management
2010-01-30T16:33:29  <barra_home> as release manager you make sure that the packages are tested
2010-01-30T16:33:35  <barra_home> you upload them and spread the news about it
2010-01-30T16:33:43  <barra_home> it's not your duty to actually put them together
2010-01-30T16:33:50  <Zenbitz> mabye you should make a wiki page on "releasing" and who does what...
2010-01-30T16:34:07  <barra_home> http://wiki.parpg.net/Packaging
2010-01-30T16:34:08  <UH-Guard2> Title: Packaging - Post-Apocalyptic RPG wiki (at wiki.parpg.net)
2010-01-30T16:34:27  <shevy> Meinmartini, there aren't really any clear assignments right now, other than trac tickets. But I think if the programmers get to be more active again, the other departments will follow
2010-01-30T16:34:36  <barra_home> I won't have the time too look into it before Monday Zenbitz
2010-01-30T16:34:43  <barra_home> so you're pretty much on your own there
2010-01-30T16:34:50  <barra_home> I could compile some short notes if that helps
2010-01-30T16:34:57  <barra_home> but nothing really fleshed out
2010-01-30T16:35:10  <Zenbitz> anything is good
2010-01-30T16:35:20  <barra_home> alrighty, I'll put that on my todo
2010-01-30T16:35:37  <shevy> Ok
2010-01-30T16:36:08  <shevy> Reason I wrote we need new people is in case when other people don't have time or are inactive (i.e. Kaydeth) for now
2010-01-30T16:36:20  <pirum> I could help with packaging on linux, maybe on windows too
2010-01-30T16:36:30  <barra_home> that would be nice pirum
2010-01-30T16:36:32  <shevy> Archlinux ftw :D
2010-01-30T16:36:51  <barra_home> anyway, I think it doesn't make much sense to discuss packaging here
2010-01-30T16:36:53  <shevy> Let's get to another item on "Still to tackle"
2010-01-30T16:37:00  <barra_home> because all it takes is research
2010-01-30T16:37:00  <shevy> it's more the emergency plan barra_home
2010-01-30T16:37:05  <barra_home> and research takes time
2010-01-30T16:37:05  <shevy> "what do we do without barra" :)
2010-01-30T16:37:14  <barra_home> there is the list of tasks
2010-01-30T16:37:21  <Zenbitz> I think just having someone in the barra role is an excellent step
2010-01-30T16:37:22  <barra_home> at the wiki, that is
2010-01-30T16:37:34  <barra_home> yep, I'm glad that shevy stepped up
2010-01-30T16:37:53  <shevy> I think I'll be trying to shape up the wiki, I am not too happy with it right now. Or ... let's say, I think it could be visually improved
2010-01-30T16:38:02  <barra_home> (list can be found here: http://wiki.parpg.net/List_of_important_project_management_tasks)
2010-01-30T16:38:03  <UH-Guard2> Title: List of important project management tasks - Post-Apocalyptic RPG wiki (at wiki.parpg.net)
2010-01-30T16:38:15  <barra_home> take in mind that it's development wiki
2010-01-30T16:38:15  <shevy> I think we have covered almost all points?
2010-01-30T16:38:20  <barra_home> yes and no
2010-01-30T16:38:28  <barra_home> important FIFE 0.3.0 point is still missing
2010-01-30T16:38:36  <shevy> ah... well i am quite clueless here
2010-01-30T16:38:37  <barra_home> I would like to shortly elaborate on it
2010-01-30T16:38:40  <shevy> kk
2010-01-30T16:38:55  <barra_home> alrighty, so here we go
2010-01-30T16:39:01  <barra_home> FIFE recently released a new stable version
2010-01-30T16:39:18  <barra_home> they changed the way the python modules get imported
2010-01-30T16:39:31  * Zenbitz cues orchestra
2010-01-30T16:39:34  <barra_home> there is a ticket at trac that contains a patch to make PARPG work with FIFE 0.3.0
2010-01-30T16:39:58  <barra_home> thanks to chewie and pirum for making that happen
2010-01-30T16:40:03  <barra_home> http://parpg-trac.cvsdude.com/parpg/ticket/246
2010-01-30T16:40:04  <UH-Guard2> Title: #246 (Port PARPG codebase to FIFE 0.3.0 import scheme) – PARPG project tracker (at parpg-trac.cvsdude.com)
2010-01-30T16:40:18  <barra_home> what we basically still need is somebody who checks the patch and commits it into SVN
2010-01-30T16:40:25  <barra_home> there are some hackish things about it
2010-01-30T16:40:40  <barra_home> it's replicating some FIFE code and there is prolly a cleaner approach to tackle it
2010-01-30T16:40:53  <barra_home> http://parpg-trac.cvsdude.com/parpg/attachment/ticket/246/import_patch.diff
2010-01-30T16:40:54  <UH-Guard2> Title: Attachment – PARPG project tracker (at parpg-trac.cvsdude.com)
2010-01-30T16:41:14  <barra_home> check the additions to game/local_loaders/xmlmap.py & game/local_loaders/__init__.py
2010-01-30T16:41:54  <barra_home> once we've moved to FIFE 0.3.0, win32 users can actually simply grab a copy of FIFE 0.3.0 instead of building from SVN source
2010-01-30T16:42:04  <barra_home> and there is a FIFE 0.3.0 mac ports package for Mac OS X Zenbitz
2010-01-30T16:42:13  <barra_home> so there are plenty of reasons to switch ASAP
2010-01-30T16:42:30  <shevy> yeah maximinus on IRC also said we should switch asap
2010-01-30T16:42:34  <Zenbitz> I agree we should switch, and switch pre-release
2010-01-30T16:42:53  <barra_home> alrighty, just wanted to underline the importance of this point
2010-01-30T16:43:02  <barra_home> I'm done with this point, any questions?
2010-01-30T16:43:27  <Zenbitz> someone should just volunteer to check the patch and commit it
2010-01-30T16:43:36  <barra_home> maximinus is on it
2010-01-30T16:43:44  <barra_home> it will just take him a couple of days
2010-01-30T16:43:48  <Zenbitz> I will check it on mac when it's in SVN
2010-01-30T16:43:54  <Zenbitz> yeah, we are not in THAT much of a hurry
2010-01-30T16:43:56  <barra_home> I've updated the download article
2010-01-30T16:43:59  <shevy> Ok
2010-01-30T16:44:14  <barra_home> with instructions how to run the PARPG trunk with the current FIFE trunk
2010-01-30T16:44:24  <barra_home> somebody has to remove the patch instructions once the patch is in SVN!
2010-01-30T16:44:47  <barra_home> see: http://wiki.parpg.net/Download#Patching_PARPG
2010-01-30T16:44:48  <UH-Guard2> Title: Download - Post-Apocalyptic RPG wiki (at wiki.parpg.net)
2010-01-30T16:44:55  <barra_home> note: I didn't add the penguin!
2010-01-30T16:44:58  <shevy> lol
2010-01-30T16:45:08  <shevy> I wanted to add a cute small penguin... i think this one is a bit too large though
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2010-01-30T16:45:25  <barra_home> hi amo-ej1
2010-01-30T16:45:31  <Beliar> hey amo-ej1
2010-01-30T16:45:33  <amo-ej1> way too late ?
2010-01-30T16:45:36  <barra_home> yep, I think it's rather distracting
2010-01-30T16:45:37  <shevy> Anyway, let's try to finish the meeting soon if we can please. I would like to quickly jump to the video stuff.
2010-01-30T16:45:41  <barra_home> yep, we're pretty much done
2010-01-30T16:45:48  <barra_home> sure shevy, shoot
2010-01-30T16:45:50  <shevy> "Techdemo video: Updated PARPG development videos so users can track progress without compiling from SVN?"
2010-01-30T16:46:01  <barra_home> all for it, just somebody needs to do uit
2010-01-30T16:46:03  <barra_home> * it
2010-01-30T16:46:06  <shevy> So far we have had only one guy who tried to show a video? qubodup I think?
2010-01-30T16:46:15  <barra_home> the current vids have been recorded by qubudp
2010-01-30T16:46:19  <barra_home> * qubodup
2010-01-30T16:46:25  <Beliar> well, he did several videos
2010-01-30T16:46:34  <Beliar> of several revisions
2010-01-30T16:46:34  <barra_home> so we should try to convince him to do a new one when we release the techdemo
2010-01-30T16:46:36  <CIA-76> FIFE: helios2000 * r3190 /Too many paths:
2010-01-30T16:46:36  <CIA-76> FIFE: * Sync with trunk
2010-01-30T16:46:36  <CIA-76> FIFE: * Remove Multitexture
2010-01-30T16:46:45  <shevy> Ok, I'll try to ask him how he did it later, and put this on the wiki if we don't have that yet
2010-01-30T16:47:00  <shevy> barra_home that would be even better of course :-)
2010-01-30T16:47:24  <shevy> hmm one last item I guess... but it's actually pretty large.
2010-01-30T16:47:28  <shevy> "What to do after the techdemo? What do we aim for?"
2010-01-30T16:47:31  <barra_home> he's a nice guy, so I think he'll do it in case he has time
2010-01-30T16:47:39  <shevy> Or let me rephrase...
2010-01-30T16:47:45  <barra_home> not sure if we can really answer this question at this point
2010-01-30T16:47:46  <shevy> Where do we see ourselves at the end of 2010 with PARPG?
2010-01-30T16:47:47  <Zenbitz> we have a couple directions to persue
2010-01-30T16:47:51  <shevy> yup agreed barra_home
2010-01-30T16:48:03  <Zenbitz> 1) improve the demo part of the game for 2nd release (item 229)
2010-01-30T16:48:09  <barra_home> I think a lot of ideas will come up as soon as we move into bugfix and packaging mode
2010-01-30T16:48:42  <Zenbitz> 2) next core areas:
2010-01-30T16:48:51  <Zenbitz> a) character system
2010-01-30T16:49:05  <Zenbitz> b) tasks and interaction with game objects
2010-01-30T16:49:09  <Zenbitz> c) combat system
2010-01-30T16:49:26  <Zenbitz> d) redesign quest/dialogue system
2010-01-30T16:50:06  <shevy> all in 2010? :D
2010-01-30T16:50:07  <barra_home> I think every department will have a couple of suggestions once the 1st release is nearing
2010-01-30T16:50:09  <shevy> just teasing ;)
2010-01-30T16:50:19  <Zenbitz> Like I said, just indicating directions.
2010-01-30T16:50:24  <Q_x> mechanics in general?
2010-01-30T16:50:48  <Zenbitz> Maximinus and I would like to make a "prototype" tool for testing combat balance.
2010-01-30T16:50:50  <shevy> One thing that should be mentioned, we have had quite a lot of discussions in the story department, but other than zenbitz not really many seemed to stick to it
2010-01-30T16:51:18  <Zenbitz> this would be independent of UI, just a little text widget with the character backend
2010-01-30T16:51:59  <Zenbitz> I don't think we can set writing/story goals unless we actually have writers (other than me)
2010-01-30T16:52:13  <barra_home> agreed
2010-01-30T16:52:15  <Zenbitz> and I would rather work on getting the mechanics working first
2010-01-30T16:52:35  <barra_home> a first release might actually help to attract some reasonable writers
2010-01-30T16:52:38  <Zenbitz> hopefully we will get some writers who do more than 3 paragraphs and leave
2010-01-30T16:52:51  <shevy> hehe
2010-01-30T16:53:23  <shevy> Hmm ok. If I didn't forget any point, I think the meeting is over?
2010-01-30T16:54:25  <shevy> here we go!
2010-01-30T16:54:26  <shevy> <END>
2010-01-30T16:54:28  <barra_home> yep :-)
2010-01-30T16:54:30  <Q_x> shevy, ok, let it be over
2010-01-30T16:54:34  <barra_home> thanks for being the chair shevy
2010-01-30T16:54:43  <barra_home> I'll summarize the results at the wiki tomorrow
2010-01-30T16:54:54  <barra_home> still need to buy groceries and prepare things for the evening
2010-01-30T16:55:00  <shevy> I have to write a few more things on the forum, something i noticed. the beginning of the meeting confused me a bit... i will grab something to eat now, will be afk for some minutes, then start writing
2010-01-30T16:55:08  <barra_home> later shevy
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2010-01-30T16:55:17  <Q_x> cya
2010-01-30T16:55:28  <Zenbitz> I must really like you guys to get up at 7:15 on a Saturday
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2010-01-30T16:55:36  <Zenbitz> let's not make this a regular event.
2010-01-30T16:55:38  <barraAway> :-)
2010-01-30T16:55:48  <barraAway> ohh well, the magic of timezones
2010-01-30T16:55:58  <barraAway> there is not really a fair time for such meetings
2010-01-30T16:56:21  <barraAway> at least not for an international team
2010-01-30T16:56:41  <Beliar> yeah
2010-01-30T16:56:43  <Meinmartini> You won't be able to accomodate everyone, so I wouldn't worry so much if we can't get more than half
2010-01-30T16:56:54  <Meinmartini> So long as everyone is responsible enough to check the logs/minutes or whatever
2010-01-30T16:57:13  <Zenbitz> clearly the major conflict is myself and maximinus... but we actually communicate well using forums.
2010-01-30T16:57:30  <Zenbitz> ok, gotta go.
2010-01-30T16:57:37  <barraAway> later Zenbitz!
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2010-01-30T19:02:43  <barra_fife> wb Taldor
2010-01-30T19:02:49  <Taldor> hi barra_fife
2010-01-30T19:02:55  <Taldor> did you have a good meeting?
2010-01-30T19:05:03  <barra_fife> I think it was pretty productive for a meeting
2010-01-30T19:07:26  <barra_fife> just preparing something, so I'm not really talkative right now
2010-01-30T19:07:36  <barra_fife> I'll summarize the meeting results at the wiki tomorrow
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2010-01-30T19:10:11  <Taldor> ok, np
2010-01-30T19:11:14  <barra_fife> :-)
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2010-01-30T19:31:01  <CIA-76> FIFE: helios2000 * r3191 /branches/active/light/ (5 files in 4 dirs):
2010-01-30T19:31:01  <CIA-76> FIFE: * Add procks camera fix
2010-01-30T19:31:01  <CIA-76> FIFE: * Add light plugins for the editor
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2010-01-30T20:10:11  <fr33mind> hi
2010-01-30T20:26:47  <barra_fife> hola fr33mind
2010-01-30T20:27:09  <fr33mind> barra_fife, you're spanish?
2010-01-30T20:27:30  <barra_fife> German
2010-01-30T20:27:36  <barra_fife> just picked that up
2010-01-30T20:27:39  <fr33mind> i'm portuguese :P
2010-01-30T20:27:42  <fr33mind> not spanish
2010-01-30T20:27:44  <barra_fife> saw so :-)
2010-01-30T20:27:47  <fr33mind> although they're similar
2010-01-30T20:27:52  <barra_fife> fr33mind (~fr33mind@cm3-84-91-80-29.netvisao.pt)
2010-01-30T20:27:57  <fr33mind> yea
2010-01-30T20:29:17  <barra_fife> I'll have to head out pretty sson
2010-01-30T20:29:19  <barra_fife> * soon
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2010-01-30T20:39:27  <barra_fife> ping prock|afk
2010-01-30T20:40:14  <fr33mind> ok
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2010-01-30T23:41:27  <fr33mind> hi totycro